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Comment by Jeff (carnivorous topiary) on June 30, 2010 at 2:04pm

Just adding a little more reference material to Gumbo's excellent reply ...

Heb. 10:1 ¶ For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.

Heb. 10:2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins?

Heb. 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.

Heb. 10:4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

K-Mod Comment by Gumbo123 on June 30, 2010 at 1:17pm

Aly and Cate - -

It was actually not by the sacrifice of animals that the OT Saints were saved, but because they had the faith that God would someday send the promised Messiah which would finally do away with the need for any further sacrifice. Their faith in the "forthcoming" of Christ is the method by which they were saved, just as today it is by our faith that Christ's sacrifice is the full propitiation for sin.


PROPTIATE - - appease, conciliate. The substitutionary sacrifice that Christ gave is the only thing that could satisfy God's requirement:

Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

HAVE A BLESSED DAY!

Comment by Aly And Cate (Two headed AlyCat) on June 30, 2010 at 12:34pm

The Old Testament sacrifices transferred your sin on to a spotless lamb(foreshadowing Jesus Christ)
So yes, in part, they did save you.
The sin had to be punished somehow.
But when Jesus came and died it satisfied all the punishment for sin, forevermore. It's an amazing thing right there.

Comment by Philip (Groffgryphon) Austin on June 30, 2010 at 11:02am

Rachel, you are not off topic at all, because indeed it is our faith that saves us. Our faith, combined with the free gift of God's sacrificing Himself through His Son Jesus, is God's plan for salvation, not of works. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission for sin. Jesus' death on the cross cleanses from all sin for all who believe, but one has to BELIEVE, thus the faith. In the Old Testament, God repeatedly looked for and rewarded faith--and the obedience that came along with it. We need to remember that our obedience is expected as well.

Comment by Tyler Dawson (Squirrelligator) on June 30, 2010 at 10:10am

@Rachel - I think animal sacrifices are something like communion today. That particular act doesn't save you, but it's a discipline that shows that you are intent on following God's will. I mean, we could probably do just fine in God's eyes if we lived in a desert with no access to grapes for communion, because it's our faith that saves us. (tough topic, btw... this is just my $.02)

Comment by Rachel Grace (Roshuim) on June 30, 2010 at 10:02am

Can I join the conversation?
I have a question about the animal sacrifices in the OT. Did that really save anyone? Because no one can be justified by the law. Abraham went to Heaven. God counted his faith to him as righteousness before He gave the law.
Sorry if that's a little off topic on what y'all were saying, but that was just on my mind.

Comment by Aly And Cate (Two headed AlyCat) on June 29, 2010 at 8:48pm

Isn't that incredible?
I love it.

Comment by ✞JeanWifeMoMhorphin✞ on June 29, 2010 at 8:36pm

 ¹ The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, ² who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. ³ Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.   

 ⁴ John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, ⁵ and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, ⁶ and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
⁷ Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
⁸ “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”   
⁹ I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. ¹⁰ I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, ¹¹ saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
¹² Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, ¹³ and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. ¹⁴ His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; ¹⁵ His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; ¹⁶ He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. ¹⁷ And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. ¹⁸ I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. (Revelation 1:1-18, New King James Version)

Comment by Aly And Cate (Two headed AlyCat) on June 29, 2010 at 8:16pm

Anyway...Back to the encouragement and overall awesomeness of Christ manifested in us.

Comment by Aly And Cate (Two headed AlyCat) on June 29, 2010 at 8:15pm

That website says I'm right.
Because Satan's not the reason Jesus had to die. Jesus died to satisfy God's wrath. Satan was damned to Hell.
Period. Satan never had control of who goes Hell. He was sent there.

People still went to heaven before Jesus' death on the cross, because of animal sacrifices. But all of that was satisfied by the perfect Lamb(Jesus)
Satan did not own anything that Jesus wanted. (:
God is so cool!!!!!!

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