Season 4 ~ Episode #17 - - - Is This Art?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steph B (Nephilim) on September 25, 2013 at 6:32pm

Urinals are not art. I stand by Link's policy of if I can't acomplish it myself, it is an achievement and should be celebrated - that is art.

K-ModPermalink Reply by Gumbo123 on September 25, 2013 at 6:49pm

Today's discussion reminds me of a Broadway play I saw back in 1999 . . .

ART

Set in Paris, the story revolves around three friends—Serge, Marc and Yvan—who find their previously solid 15-year friendship on shaky ground when Serge buys an expensive painting.

The canvas is white, with a few white lines.

Serge is proud of his 200,000 franc acquisition fully expecting the approval of his friends.

Marc scornfully describes it as "a piece of white shit," but is it the painting that offends him, or the uncharacteristic independence-of-thought that the purchase reveals in Serge?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art (play)

K-ModPermalink Reply by Victoria (Centauromadoose) on September 25, 2013 at 9:12pm

GAH! Marcel Duchamp's Fountain is a key piece of artwork because it marked the development of post-modern artistic concepts and methods. By taking a utilitarian object like a urinal and adding an element that makes it fundamentally not a urinal anymore (note that there's a pipe outlet added to the rim) -- How can this be a urinal when there's an outlet for the liquids to escape? Now it's more like a fountain -- Duchamp questions the perception of objects, all objects, and asks us to look at things differently. Duchamp's question WAS, fundamentally: Is this thing art? What makes something "art"? That exploration in itself makes Fountain such a key piece within the Western art historical canon.

Rhett's definition of art is actually a very good one (claps for Rhett) and is supported by some major art historians in the field. When I took my methodologies course as an art history major, one of the essay pieces we read and studied (forgive me, I can't recall the two authors' names) actually put forward the definition of art as something that makes people think, question, and engage in conversation. They asked, "If no one talks about an art object, can it really be art?" It has no effect or purpose if no one bothers to talk about it. Art, at least in the post-modern world, must make us think and discuss.

In summary: Don't question art when there's an art history major around!

K-ModPermalink Reply by Gumbo123 on September 26, 2013 at 4:08pm

NOTE: since it's turned on side, the "pipe outlet" you refer to is actually the inflow for water where the flush handle would have fit when installed on wall for it's original intended purpose.

Fellow art lover Patrick Payne has also taken to the defensce of Fountain with some additional historical backfill at rhettandlinkommunity.com/forum/topics/outraged-by-is-this-art?

K-ModPermalink Reply by Victoria (Centauromadoose) on September 25, 2013 at 9:26pm

Another thing (yes I'm still talking) --

The fundamental problem behind critiquing most modernist art (the kind where it's squares of color on white background) and post-modern art (all the other weird stuff that came after it) is that people tend to only look at the visual form of the piece. They stop there. With these artworks, you cannot stop at the visual. You have to delve into the conceptual.

For example: Blood Red Mirror by Gerhard Richter. I have not seen this piece before, but I can already tell you that to have any understanding of it, you have to ask -- why did he paint a mirror and not a canvas? And why is it blood red? Painting over a mirror, a reflective surface, so that it's opaque in itself begs you to question and reflect on (see that?) the nature of the objects around us. Much like Duchamp's Fountain, this piece has taken a common object and spun it on its head so it's no longer what it was. The title tells you you're looking into a mirror, but instead of seeing yourself, you see a wall of blood red paint. How do we respond when reality doesn't meet our expectations? On top of that, how do we react when confronted with the unsettling notion of blood on a mirror?

With artwork, always always always ask WHY.

Permalink Reply by Nate (Silent Phoenix Mime) on September 27, 2013 at 4:36pm

I liked Rhett's point about a few of the art displays. He said that some were art... but not 2.5 MILLION dollar art. Good point, Rhett.

Permalink Reply by Lucas (I'm Brony and I'm Proud) on October 10, 2013 at 4:59am

Art is expressing yourself creatively and inspiring others in the process - YEAH!!! :)