Jesus Christ

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Permalink Reply by Rob (fresh) on July 13, 2010 at 6:20pm

Alex- I really appreciate your honest take on the topic of the thread. I certainly can understand, based upon what you wrote, why you wouldn't believe in Jesus Christ or the Bible.

But I will say this, many of your reasons are rooted in misunderstandings in interpretation of the Bible. Much of what you wrote, while it makes sense how you would come to these conclusions, are not what any genuine Christians actually believe...the rest of it is just things taken out of context.

While I would never assume someone would cheaply place their heart out in the open in an online forum to mold and shape their worldview, I would be more than glad to help you understand what the message of the Bible is in a concrete and understandable way. That way if you reject it, at least you are rejecting what it actually is and not a misunderstanding.

If you are satisfied where you are at that is totally cool, and I totally don't believe in what you are saying the message of the Bible is also. But I tell you, the truth of it's message is such a rich, redeeming, life giving message that is able to radically transform anyone who actually would open their heart to God with a sincere heart and dare to dream the dream of the most amazing love story in all the cosmos.

take care man :-)
-Rob

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Permalink Reply by alex (quantizistor) on July 15, 2010 at 2:06am

Thanks Rob,
I have on many occasions tried to accept religion, but I can never bring myself to believe due to the overwhelming feeling of hypocrisy. The church has been, and in some cases, still is, exactly what I do not stand for. Their stances have changed time and time again while they still preach the never-changing word of Christ. To have a relationship with god though the church is like bringing peace through destruction (for me). I do understand that many of the action of the church were perpetrated by individuals, and do not reflect the opinions of intents of the entire catholic nation, however, I can not follow an organization that has allowed and even enabled people to preach one thing and do the exact opposite.

This is going to sound redundant. You misunderstood me in thinking that I misunderstand the bible. I have spoken to many youth pastors and religious folks , of many different religious denominations (catholic, Shiite, Buddhism, and yes, Scientology), and they have explained to me what they are all about. However, they rarely practice what they preach, and the bible (or other holy scripture) contradicts their messages. I am not uneducated about the bible.

Since the bible has been translated, misinterpreted, and mangled, why has it not been fixed?
If the word of god is unchanging, how can ANY passage be ignored?
If so many passages from "the word of god" can be disregarded, why is homosexuality still a sin?
How is banning homosexuality any less ludicrous than any other of the ignored rules?
How is love between two men or two women unthinkable and crazy, but the story of Noah's ark isn't?
How can people who devote their lives to God still turn his back on his rules?
WHEN WILL ALL THE CRAZINESS STOP?!
HOW CAN I BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE THAN CONDEMNS ME?!


Dear Rob, please show me where I went wrong, please be precise. I'm not crazy. I'm not a bad person.
Life is grand and amazing, and I'm in love with life. Life is my religion. Life doesn't shower me with hate and violence when I stay true to myself. The followers of God have rejected me, and tried to change me.

If the relationship with God is powerful and beautiful and life-changing, then why do they commit such hate on the world?
God seems to corrupt them, not save them.
At the same time, every one thinks that their religion is true and say that only their religion changes lives, what make you so different from them?

If that is the power and divinity of God, I want nothing to do with it.

Ramen.

P.S. I'll be gone for a while, so I might not get chance to respond.

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Permalink Reply by Rob (fresh) on July 15, 2010 at 4:53pm

Alex you have alot of legitimate concerns. I certainly do not follow a "church", a building, a bunch of people. I don't want anyone else to either. God is able to meet anyone right where they are, and just because you are religious doesn't mean you are better than others. Alex, I mess stuff up all the time, and I know in my immaturity I have said and done things that would turn anyone off to God. Just like anyone else, I need to grow up and I am still growing so much.

I know your concerns seem like huge pressing issues, but I think God is able to handle the tough questions---maybe even desires someone to actually go directly to him with them and NOT a building with people who have an agenda. It was Him who said if you seek you will find, if you knock it will be open to you. Whoever asks receives. I suppose if He is real and desires relationship with you that you can work that out with Him on your own. Maybe He likes to wrestle...?

The Bible and the church aren't going to make much sense apart from your own personal encounter with Him. So how you feel is well, expected.

I am confident with an open and sincere heart you are in a great place to discover the truth....or rather be discovered :-) I hope and pray the best for you on your journey
-Rob

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Permalink Reply by alex (quantizistor) on July 15, 2010 at 6:19pm

Just a quick reply before I go:

Thanks for your help, but my beliefs (or lack thereof) won't be changing any time soon. If I ever see you in the chat, let's talk.

I'll see you around,
Alex.

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Permalink Reply by ✞CJ Higgins✞Holy Beast of God✞ on July 18, 2010 at 8:10pm

There is so much hate in the world because it is of the Devil, Satan, Lucifer. He and his demons are all over the world trying to destroy and takeover every single person and keep them from God. Satan is very smart. He knows everything about God. God doesn't want you to burn in a lake of fire for eternity. God wants you to spend eternity in Heaven with Him and His angels. God does have His wrath, but He is slow to anger for all His people on earth that He created. Proverbs 4:27 says Do not sway to the right or to the left; keep your foot from evil. I'm not saying you are a evil person, but I'm saying to live a righteous life and honor God with your life. For you, my advise is go to a Pentecostal Church or please go to promiselandchurch.net and watch the services of my church every Sunday at 9 am & 10:30 am and Wednesday evening 7:15 pm (central time). our services are streamed Live.

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Permalink Reply by Space Police Ociffer Matt on December 2, 2010 at 1:20pm

All that stuff in there is stuff from the old testament, used to keep order, but now since jesus died for us, we don't need all those rules anymore because we are perfect through jesus. And when looking at the old testament laws, you have to remember to put it all in perspective, it was VERY different back then. and as for any contradictions, try to find a middle ground, the bible never contradicts itself, it only seems to. also, i admire that you did read a lot of the bible and tried to accept it, most atheists i've encountered won't even give christianity a chance, and are very hostile to anyone who doesn't believe what they do. and as to you being gay, it's not that it's natural to be gay, but that god is testing you. I know that you probably feel towards men the same way i do for women, but the god-pleasing thing to do in that case would be to abstain from any kind of relationship with men. and also, as to god sending people to hell for them not believing in him, if you were a bartender, would you give a beer to someone who only THOUGHT they weren't drunk, as they stumble over the barstools? Any time the word of god has been used against someone or something like you said: women's rights, science, and art, it has been man's flawed understanding and greedy use of the bible to demote or promote things that will make them more rich, or have more power in their life on earth. and finnally any sin that you commit is forgiven by god as long as you sincerely believe in him, and love him.

alex (quantizistor) said:

I hate to be the Non-believer in the room, but that's who I am. I am NOT anti-god in any way, I am however anti-church (the catholic one, to be precise). I have my reasons.

- I cannot believe in the bible when it tells me odd and terrible things. Such as: Exo.31:14-15, Leviticus 25:44, Exodus 21:7, Lev.1:9, Exodus 35:2, 11:10, Lev. 21:20, Lev. 19:27, 11:6-8, Lev.19:19, Lev.24:10-16,Lev. 20:14, ,and my personal favorite, Lev.15: 19-24. So I am allowed to sell my daughter into slavery and put anyone who works on the sabbath to death, in the eyes of the lord, but if I fall in love *see reason 2*, have any contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness, trim the hair around my temples, play football or eat shell fish I'm going to hell? The bible says every one's going to hell, unless we follow bible, which condemns all of us.

*Please look up the aforementioned passage to understand my point.

-I'm gay, self-explanatory. I have never felt any feelings for a woman, and I have for a man. Either god made a mistake or Leviticus is wrong.

-*see attachment 1*

-The church has a long tradition of going against genius (Galileo Galilei, for example), Art (Pope Pius IX ), Women's rights (Genesis 3:16, Corinthians 14:34-36, Colossians 3:18, Peter 3:1) and progress in general.

-We only know of existence though our brain, our brain only knows though observation (using the senses), science relies on observation to understand all that exists. If I want to understand all that exists, I use science, not religion. Science has the potential to make sense to everyone and encompasses everything.
Religion is quite different, it does not use observation or reason to explain, it does not explain.

I don't want to attack religion, but those are just my opinions. I'm very open-minded and reasonable, which is why I have come to my conclusion. I hope you too will be as open-minded and respond to my comment.

I sincerely believe that if I lead a good and moral life, God, if he exists, will let me into heaven. If God would turn away a good person for not believing in him, he is not divine at all, and I'd rather wallow in hell than to be with him.

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