Reformation Day!!

Comment

Comment by Trasity (Platypterodactylotamus) on November 11, 2010 at 10:39pm

I'd still like some help.

If you would, maybe you could point me to a resource from which you gather your information, because I am not finding anything regarding what you're advocating..

K-Mod Comment by Gumbo123 on November 10, 2010 at 1:22pm

No arguement taken ;)

The best advise I ever heard was basically that there are certain things worth dying for and other that just aren't. Applies greatly to almost everything in religion except basic doctrine. For instance, put a gun to my head and tell me to deny the Godly priesthood or the virgin birth and devinity of Christ and you might as well just sto wasting time and pull the trigger. On the other hand, tell me to accept sprinkling vs. immersion or whether or not women should never wear pants and . . . hold it there sister, we've got something worth talking about.

Beyond purely scriptural and doctrinal truths, the rest is all really just personal opinion, preference or conviction, isn't it? And in the end, if we have taken the right path, we will know for sure anyway.

With that in mind, one of my favorite verses is John 21:25 - - I posted why a while back on the Favorite Verses discussion in the CHRISTIAN group.

Comment by Trasity (Platypterodactylotamus) on November 8, 2010 at 4:20pm

This isn't an argument lol.

I understand where you are coming from. You're speaking of Baptist as in orthodox methods, not a denomination. Still, I spent much time in research (online and in The Baptist College of Florida's library where I still have 3 baptist history books checked out haha) and can find no evidence of true Baptist (adult baptism by immersion) methods existing all the way from Christ's time.

At the entrance of pedobaptism on the scene, original Baptist methods went out the window. This occurred around a.d. 300-400. It wasn't until religious freedom (by means of reformation across Europe) from the Roman Catholic church and Eastern Orthodox church that people started going back to true Christ-like doctrine and faith.

If you would, maybe you could point me to a resource from which you gather your information, because I am not finding anything regarding what you're advocating.

K-Mod Comment by Gumbo123 on November 4, 2010 at 1:28pm

Please don't take this exchange as any type of argument or abuse - - it certainly is not intended as such.

But I'm not referring to a religious denomination in the manner that Baptist is like Methodist or Lutheran. I'm not talking about Southern Baptist Association or Missionary Baptists or any such like. A true modern day independent, fundamental Baptist Church has no denominational ties although it may have certain doctrinal ties to other Baptist churches. But it is founded not because of some "charter" but on the faith in and direction of Jesus as head of the Church, the local gathering of New Testament believers, which he created and ordained on the day of Pentecost. In that manner, it is exactly the same as the 1st Century churches that Paul and Peter founded. And, if the congregation was really founded on a scriptural basis, it would have been established as a "daughter" church as an offshoot of an existing work, and should be able (if records remained) to trace its origins back to one of the first churches.

But we all know that records don't remain forever. My dad was born in 1930 in a rural farmhouse . . . no birth certificate was ever created or registered. That doesn't mean he wasn't born or he didn't know his family heritage.

Again, please don't take this exchange as an argument - - - It is just that after nearly 30 years of Catholic education and upbringing I joined a Baptist church by conviction. And now, 20+ years later, I have come to finally begin to understand better the difference between a RELIGION and a RELATIONSHIP and also that any "true" church must be founded on the same basis that Jesus established . . .

“He asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”. [Matthew 16:13 – 20]

Remember that up to this point, the man's name was Simon but the Lord now calls him Peter [Greek, Petros — a large piece of rock] indicating his stability in leadership. But the word Jesus uses next is Petra — in Greek a huge rock, like Gibraltar — referring to the truth Peter had just spoken and the foundation that God would build His Church, and not any man.

Okay, enough already. If anyone even happens to read this, thanks for caring enough to take the time. And thank you Trasity for allowing a forum to have such a meaningful discussion.

Have a blessed day.

Comment by Trasity (Platypterodactylotamus) on November 4, 2010 at 12:34pm

Okay, so I've done some studying. What I've concluded is that the Baptist denomination came out of the Reformation. What you're speaking of is the Continuation or Successionist view of Baptist history. Based on my research, it seems this view is shunned because of the lack of historical evidence and faulty evidence in general. Here's a great resource I found that you might be interested in reading: http://www.reformedreader.org/history/pbh.htm

Comment by Trasity (Platypterodactylotamus) on November 3, 2010 at 8:33pm

Gumbo123, that's quite an interesting view you've presented. I've never heard of it. I'll get back to you on this point after having done some research.

K-Mod Comment by Gumbo123 on November 2, 2010 at 3:44pm

Being of primarily Spanish and French heritage, the "family religion" for countless generations has been, and is likely to remain, Roman Catholic. I, however, am Baptist by conviction and understanding.

Just a brief note that I believe the true Baptist faith did not come about as part of the English Seperatist movement of the 17th centuty, the outgrowth of Anabaptist traditions or in any form as a protest against the Roman Catholic Church - - they were never a part of it.

I hold to the perpetuity view which assumes that the Baptist faith and practice has existed since the time of Christ - - there has been a succession of Baptist churches throughout history beginning with the first Baptist church of Jerusalem, and dissenters from the earliest times were merely Baptists with different names.

Putting aside any "charter" or "association" differences, forgetting about any personal preferences in traditional versus contemporary, I believe that a true Baptist is concerned first and foremost with the principle that there is no external act that can bring about salvation (the Baptist definition of being a Christian). Let's work together as Christians to make it abundantly clear that becoming "saved" comes by faith alone. It has nothing to do with baptism, church membership, good works, or anything else except one accepting Jesus Christ as one's personal savior.

Have a blessed day.